I've been told that the din of someone who opts for cremation is that there is no kaddish, and he has no chelek in olam haba. But I've had a question for quite some time--'ain shaliach lidvar aveira'! What is someone requested to be cremated and wasn't? Would he have the same din? Certainly someone who didn't want to be cremated and was chalila would have a chelek. Anyone have any insights or marai m'komos?

I have not seen the Mara M'komos (though I once looked for it, but came up empty handed.) I think the logic goes along these lines. If someone wants to be cremated, then that person doesn't believe in Tichias Hameisim. The Rambam Paskins that those who don't believe in Tichias Hameisim are Apikorsim and don't have a Chelek in Olam Habah (one of his 13 principles.) Therefore all of the above applies. So it's not dependent of the actual cremation, but rather what's behind the decision to get cremated.

http://limudtorah.jewishweb.org

http://globalyeshiva.com/eve/forums?a=frm&f=9291076782

So according to this, the one who wants to be cremated, even though the children refuse to do so, should not have shiva, kaddish, etc. I am familiar with a case where a parent requested to be cremated. One of the children, a baal teshuva, was instructed by his rav to resist this command (against the other siblings); he successfully did so, and was permitted to fulfill dinei aveilus. But according to what we are saying now, the rav poskinned incorrectly--the person lchora denied tchias hameisim! Even if the son did a mitzvah in preventing the cremation, if we go after the belief of the father...What do you think? Thanks for your reply.

Are there any other cases where a parent dies without having lived an excellent life, and the children have the opportunity to boost them up after their death?

In the case of a thief who leaves over items for his orphaned children to benefit from, in Bava Kama, I remember reading something that the children are not obligated to returned the stolen items, but it would benefit their father if they did.

Why should a misguided desire for cremation be any different, particularly if hypothetically a rav who knew the father determined that there was some ignorance of Torah behind that misguided decision?

Perhaps there is even a leniency that anyone who died without having yet witnesses tchias hameisim (of another) in their lifetime can be tolerated up to the point of putting a huge bumper sticker across their apartment door declaring that noone should believe in tchias hameisim?

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in Bava Kama, I remember reading something that the children are not obligated to returned the stolen items, but it would benefit their father if they did.

Over there the Gemara says that the father did T'Shuva before he died, but didn't have a chance to return it before he died. The reason for returning is for Kavod Av, so people wouldn't see the object and say that's what his father stole. If he didn't do T'Shuva, then he wouldn't be "Oiseh Maase Omicha" not being an observant Jew, and the son is not obligated to serve him.

There are other Gemaras that asign the concept of Bra Zoche Av, son giving merits to his father, but by treating him as what he is and not showing respect brings a Kapara for him like in the case of Chizkiyahu dragged the bones of his father.

I also want to make it clear that it's not clear what the status of a non observant jew in our day and age might not be considered 100% responsible for his actions because he doesn't know better. So that in itself, by asking to be cremated while not knowing any better may not ruin his status.
http://limudtorah.jewishweb.org

http://globalyeshiva.com/eve/forums?a=frm&f=9291076782

The Kitzur (siman 26 I believe) says that while kaddish uplifts the soul, the conduct of a child is the greatest 'ilui neshama' for a person's soul, that he should live as a righteous Jew. I heard that the Shulchan Aruch Harav says that the mitzvah to honor a parent after the parent's death is greater than when he's alive, for during his life he can accomplish his own elevation, but after death only the child can accomplish this. He also says that when a child learns Torah it is as if the parent is learning Torah (there is a great story in the book The Maggid Speaks about this).
I would like further clarification of this point--if a non-frum person is cremated, should kaddish be said. Rav Chaim is definitely saying the rav erred! Has anybody out there ever gotten psak?
Incidentally, I recall having seen Rav Chaim (Brisker!) quoted as saying that there's no such thing as shogeg when it comes to apikursus(sounds harsh, but I think that's what it says in Kovetz Haaros). Pleases enlighten me.

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Rav Chaim is definitely saying the rav erred!

I don't think you can go so far as to say that. He was merely giving a sevoro [logical argument].

Welcome to TGY, Daniel.

I don't recall if I already argued on this issue, but in my humble opinion, if a person requests cremation, one should be granted. Whether this request is misguided or not - that's a question that cannot be answered in general terms. So many of our grandparents, grand-uncles, and grand-aunts were cremated during the Shoah. For many, it was their wish when the suffering became unbearable: for millions of Jews, the only way out of Auschwitz was through the chimney. Do they not deserve a chelek in Olam haBa? My grandmother - a deeply religious Jewish person - wished to be cremated. We asked her why - her answer was, "I want to be with those who were cremated THEN". (she never used the word Shoah or its Russian equivalent). Misguided? Maybe. But it was important for her.

a thought recently came to me - before this thread - which could be pertinent here.

of course nothing is beyond Hashem's capabilities. And reconstituting people's bodies even from ashes would not be impossible for Hashem.

How wonderful it would be if Hashem chose to resurrect all of the murdered martyrs of the Holocaust in our time?

We have Holocaust survivors still with us.

If we look back to the oldest of those murdered at the start of the Holocaust, perhaps they were born around 1850?

If such a glorious miraculous event would take place now we would have quite an amazing piece of living history to grow from, and noone could ever deny Hashem or the Holocaust!

This thread has inspired me to share this fantastic idea which I have enjoyed exploring.

I just have a second now, but I wanted to tell everyone that I found an incredible source, which is the sefer Gesher Hachaim, 2nd volume, chapter thirteen. He explains the hashkafa and halacha of burying and burning. He does say explicitly that those, like our kdoshim, who were burnt against their will, will be resurrected at tchias hameisim. Bli neder I will expand when I have more time.

There have surely been Jews living in communities in Asia or other places where cremation is perhaps more common than in the West, and even the norm.

There are also Jewish cemeteries in those places.

It would seem conceivable that there were at least some Jews who's bodies were cremated against their will due to lack of specification and either lack of knowledge of the deceased religion or the decedent's lack of knowledge of the consequences choosing such a local custom.

Can we take any "solace" (for them) in Yaakov Avinu's request that his body be embalmed in Egypt?

To my knowledge, at any rate, Yaakov Avinu did not request to be embalmed. Yosef did it without consulting Yaakov, and according to one opinion in the gemara, it was an aveira for which Yosaif died before his brothers!
There is also a machlokess in the meforshim if what was done is what we call embalming (I recall having heard a recorded shiur on the subject from Rabbi Frand...).
The overall point is of course accepted, though, that such Jews are b'ezrat Hashem worthy of t'chias hameisim.
Rav Chaim's point about the status of non-frum Jews in our time is very telling, especially in light of what the Gesher Hachaim writes concerning suicide (Vol 2, chap. 25), that we do not classify someone as a halachic suicide unless he declared his intent with a clear, rational mind and immediately performs the act. If there is any significant time lapse between his act and his death, we assume he regretted his act before he died. (See there)
Between the time the cremated person wrote his will and his incapacitation there was certainly time for regret, and who says his intent in cremation was a denial of t'chias hameisim in the first place...I really have the urge to consult with a major posaik to find out if the original psak I referred to holds any water...
Alex: Wouldn't the honoring of a request to cremate be mvatel the mitzvas asai of kvura?
Yashr Koach to all.