I'm new to this board, so first of all: Hello to everyone.

Up until before Pesach, I shaved using a regular razor. I've been pondering the relative pros and cons of moving over to an electric shaver and can't decide what the right thing to do is.

I've been doing a lot of reading and there seem to be many different issues to consider. I understand the stuff about how one should use a 'scissor' rather than a 'blade' to shave with, which is why some poskim permitted some electric shavers. However, I was reading recently that modern electric shavers can be so sharp that when the first (of the two 'blades') hits the hair, it can cut before a scissor action has been performed.

With this in mind, and the information on koshershaver.info (very anti-shaving altogether website), I am wondering whether it is actually any better to use an electric shaver at all.

Is an electric razor a very lenient line or is it actually ok to use?

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Originally posted by Adam Jacobs:
I'm new to this board, so first of all: Hello to everyone.

Welcome to a fellow Limey!

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Up until before Pesach, I shaved using a regular razor.

What do you mean by a "regular razor"?

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I've been pondering the relative pros and cons of moving over to an electric shaver and can't decide what the right thing to do is.

You definitely should. The difficulty is choosing one that is halachically OK. Some electric shavers have the halachic status of a razor and are not permitted, as you have quite rightly pointed out.

I am not an expert on the specific details which make smoe shavers kosher and others not.

There are some opinions that one should not use an electric shaver at all and only use scisors to trim the beard. (beard trimmers work like scicssors)
I think most or at least many orthodox Rabbis do accept using electric shavers.
So the question is what shaver to use.

Some of the Rabbis in the US said there is a problem with Philllips Norelco lift and cut shavers (the newer models). The problem can be corrected easily by removing pieces from it. I think they have a diagram on the web site.
Rabbis in Machon Tzomet in ISrael disagreed. They examined it and determined that if you hold that electric shvavers are kosher they all are kosher and if the PHillips are not then none of the electric shavers are kosher. According to them there was no difference between the different electric shavers.
That was their initial response a few years ago. I am not sure if they changed their stand since then. So it needs to be checked out.

All these opinions are kind of confusing.

In any case razors are not kosher according to all opinions.
so electric shaver is certainly better.

If you are confused by all these opinions you can use a beard trimmer which work like scissors.

Maybee someone who knows more about the details can add to what I wrote.

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Welcome to a fellow Limey!

Thanks

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What do you mean by a "regular razor"?

The Gillette Mach 3 one with the battery so the blades vibrate.

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All these opinions are kind of confusing.

I think this is the problem. There are too many different opinions. I know a Rabbi in London who draws a line on his arm. Then he'll get the electric shaver, turn it on and push it hard against it. If the line he drew on himself stays there, then he says the shaver is ok.

I know another Rabbi who takes an electric shaver with it off and opens it up to get at the blades. He'll then pull a beard hair out and see if he can cut it with a single motion using the blades. If he can, he says that the electric shaver has the potential to cut like a blade and is not Kosher.

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In any case razors are not kosher according to all opinions.
so electric shaver is certainly better.

I agree 100% that razors like I used before Pesach are not Kosher by any opinion. However, are the lenient opinions ok to go by? I don't know too many orthadox Rabbis who use electric shavers themselves.

If the lenient opinions are not ok to go by, I wonder whether a Rabbi who is strict in his opinions would still say that its better to use an electric over a razor or whether it makes no difference because they are all non-Kosher.

I know when R.Moshe Feinstein was alive, he permitted certain electric shavers. I don't think it helped when R.David Feinstein (his son) made comments to the effect that if his father was alive today, he doesn't think that his father would permit any of the newer models.

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If you are confused by all these opinions you can use a beard trimmer which work like scissors.

Does a beard trimmer provide a close enough shave to look clean shaven?



Thank you!
Adam.

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Does a beard trimmer provide a close enough shave to look clean shaven?

May I ask, are you in a profession for which you are required to look clean shaven?

Is there some other reason, such as a wife's preference, for why you would want to look that way?

I'm an IT Consultant in central London. Whilst its not really the done thing to have a beard, it wouldn't be totally out of the question (as long as it was neat!).

My wife would prefer me clean shaven to stubbly.

I have brown hair and my beard grows ginger, so from a personal preference point of view, I'm not particularly inamoured with it.

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If the lenient opinions are not ok to go by, I wonder whether a Rabbi who is strict in his opinions would still say that its better to use an electric over a razor or whether it makes no difference because they are all non-Kosher.

Well there might be Rabbis out there that say it will make no difference. However I think most Rabbis wil either allow electric shavers or at least say it is better than non electric shavers.


If you buy a Phillips lift and cut shaver in an orthodox neighborhood from an orthodox seller he will probably be able to take out the part that makes it not kosher.
there is also a website on line that shows how to do it.

Again there those who will say that electirc shavers are not kosher period.

Regarding Beard Trimmers

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Does a beard trimmer provide a close enough shave to look clean shaven?

I imagine that even if don't put any clippers on it , it won't look as clean as an electric shaver. But that explains why it is less questionable. It really works just like scissors.

You have a few choices with a beard trimeer.
You can use it with out clippers and see how you look.

You can put the #1 or #2 clippers. You will have a very short beard. It won't look unclean, yet at the same time you won't fell you really have much of a beard. It will be very short.
Even if it bothers you at first , after a while you won't feel it.

The third option is to grow a beard.


As I said earlier I am not an expert on the details regarding the status of electric shavers, thus I am not giving any opinion but just explaining the options and what i do know about the subject to make it easier on you. You can discuss this with a Rav as well to help you come with your decision.

By "clippers" are you refering to the varying length guards which slide over the cutting part?

I would refer to the cutting part as the clipper.

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By "clippers" are you refering to the varying length guards which slide over the cutting part?

Yes, I am not actually sure if I am using the right terminology.
I mean no guards , just the cutting part.
And when I said 1 or 2 I meant putting the plastic guards numbered 1 or 2.

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Originally posted by Baruch:
Well there might be Rabbis out there that say it will make no difference. However I think most Rabbis wil either allow electric shavers or at least say it is better than non electric shavers.

I guess it probably is better to go by some opinions than by none!

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If you buy a Phillips lift and cut shaver in an orthodox neighborhood from an orthodox seller he will probably be able to take out the part that makes it not kosher.
there is also a website on line that shows how to do it.

Does removing that part affect how well the shaver works? What about other brands that don't (as far as I know) use lift and cut, like Remmington?

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Again there those who will say that electirc shavers are not kosher period.

Regarding Beard Trimmers

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Does a beard trimmer provide a close enough shave to look clean shaven?

I imagine that even if don't put any clippers on it , it won't look as clean as an electric shaver. But that explains why it is less questionable. It really works just like scissors.

You have a few choices with a beard trimeer.
You can use it with out clippers and see how you look.

You can put the #1 or #2 clippers. You will have a very short beard. It won't look unclean, yet at the same time you won't fell you really have much of a beard. It will be very short.
Even if it bothers you at first , after a while you won't feel it.

The third option is to grow a beard.


As I said earlier I am not an expert on the details regarding the status of electric shavers, thus I am not giving any opinion but just explaining the options and what i do know about the subject to make it easier on you. You can discuss this with a Rav as well to help you come with your decision.

I think what I might do is borrow a beard trimmer after the Omer and see what it looks like. If it looks ok, then I'll think about keeping a tidy beard. If it doesn't look right on me, then I'll discuss electric shavers with a Rav.

Thanks!

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Does removing that part affect how well the shaver works? What about other brands that don't (as far as I know) use lift and cut, like Remmington?

From what I heard the part that needs to be removed does not effect the shaving. The company probably claims it helps. But people told me it shaves just the same.
You have to check what other brands are ok.

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I think what I might do is borrow a beard trimmer after the Omer and see what it looks like. If it looks ok, then I'll think about keeping a tidy beard. If it doesn't look right on me, then I'll discuss electric shavers with a Rav.

Good idea. I suggest playing around with it. Try using the #1 or #2 plastic guards and then try not using them.

Good luck.

Thank you

The majority of non-Hasidic Orthodox Rabbis permit using electric shavers, but there are exceptions. The Remington/Braun which vibrate are more acceptable than the Norelco style of rotary heads.
I used a Braun for years before I grew a beard, and found it worked very well for me. That is what I would recommend.
Certainly the fact that some Rabbis forbid all electric shavers should not be a reason to continue using one that is unanimously considered unacceptable.

Thank you.

I won't be using a regular razor anymore.

When you say the ones that vibrate, do you mean the ones that have a foil, rather than the Remmington / Braun ones that like like the Phillips / Norelco rotating ones?

All the best,
Adam.

But with the Norelco if the problematic part is taken out it is also ok.

Yes, Adam.
It seems from a little online research that the proper terms used today are the "foil" as opposed to "rotary".

Baruch,
I agree with you that rotary shavers can be made acceptable. It just seems simpler to buy one that is good "as-is". Also, making modifications may invalidate the warranty.